What I found interesting in chapter seven the book Stiff was that, the author is informing us of a man named Frederick Zugibe and his interest in the science of Crucifixion. So in the year 2001 Zugibe decides to do an experiment where he must construct a cross which he used in his experiment for seven days, using live volunteers he must make them go up in the cross he built. Using leather straps not nails to hold them up. The first thing that Zugibe noticed was that the people he began putting on the cross had no breathing problems. In the end Zugibe’s theory was that the nails went in through Jesus’ palms at an angle and came out the back side at the wrist. The biology concept that is addressed would be the study of blood vessels because the experiment is all about how the nails went through Jesus’ palms and by making the nails go though Jesus’ palms the nails would have most likely gone through a blood vessel . I believe that the study of blood vessels would be in our biology class because there are two arteries that can be found in a human hand the radical artery(being the main artery of the hand) and the ulnar artery both being the only the two arteries that can be found in the human hand. ( this was written by Debora Perez all the informing I found in the book stiff but the information about the blood vessels I found in a book named Biology: Concepts and Applications: Concepts and Applications)
I also found this chapter interesting.This chapter is a good example of not believing what other people say.When Barbet's suffocation theory was proven wrong when Zugibe put living people on a cross and found that they did not have to push them selves up to be able to breath.
I found that the fact that what killed Jesus was not suffocation, but blood loss, possibly. This puts us closer to finding out what happened to someone in a story carried mostly by word. Barbet thought that they died because they had to push themselves up to breathe, but it was proven wrong by Zugibe.
I also think that the fact that Zugibe had to built a cross very interesting. Zugibe tried to see if anybody would suffer problems while breathing and after a person stood in the cross for about 45 minutes and did not feel any problems, Zugibe gave up.
I agree, it was interesting to see how Zugibe set out to test Barbet's theory and proved him wrong. It's true what Moises said, "This chapter is a good example of not believing what other people say". If he had we all probably would have believed what Barbet said was true.
I found it crazy why someone would voluntarily go up on a cross even though they did it to "experience" what Jesus went through it doesn't come close to it. Jesus was beaten, whipped, made to carry the cross and the nailed to it for six hours. So hanging there for 45 minutes doesn't prove much. Having studied Jesus' crucifixion before, I believe he died because his heart burst not blood loss or suffocation.
I also agreed that it was pretty mad to agree to do such an experiment, as to voluntarily give yourself to be actually staked onto a cross (as was mentioned once that a young woman has asked). Though, as crazy as it sounds, I understand why they would want to experience the sacrifice of christ. I believe that the volunteers thought "well, by experiencing such an act that jesus did, that would be some sort of 'cleansing' on my part, right?" so, desperate to be 'allowed into heaven', with no second thoughts they would give themselves to the study. Now, I'm sure not all of the volunteers were extremely certain of that theory so they did not go all the way as to killing themselves on the cross but get a small hint of what it was like to hung there (but, also, I assume that there were also some believers of christ who were certain 100%). And even if being hung on the cross is only one of the many ways Jesus was tortured on the cross, it is the main part of the whole process. "the crucifixion of christ" is what everyone knows, not "The beating of christ" or "The whipping of christ". So surely these people weren't focusing on the details. I have studied much about the ways of how Jesus died, but I am not under the christianity/Catholic umbrella of religion so I may not be accurate to some beliefs (since I never attended sunday school, I mean.), but I believe Jesus died from blood loss. I know it seems like a simple way to die, but it would generally include everything he went through. Loosing blood means loosing oxygen, and surely the beatings were not small paper cuts. A heart cannot burst, it can fail from blood loss though. It can be stabbed, ripped out and then burst between your fingers! but a beating heart can not physically combust within someone's chest unless there was some type of virus. However, if you believe one of his major arteries burst, then that would be more logical (to me, at least). If jesus was whacked enough on the noggin, along with the type of trauma of what he went through, I wouldn't be surprised if he had a heart attack- thus (I assume) being large enough to burst one of his arterie. I'm only trying to support your theory, because almost anything is possible.
I agree, it was fascinating to see how Zugibe set out to test Barbet's theory and proved him wrong. With all the details that were looked into and proven wrong, and how a man volunteered himself to put Barbet's theory to the test.
I also agree with how Zugibe took the challenge to go against Barbet's theory. But the fact that will and the thirst for knowledge drove him to take this risk truly is admirable.
Debora their main concern was where the nail went in Jesus' palm without making a large tear in the skin. The path also did not chip the bones and that's how Zugibe's theory came about. The path of the nail went through Jesus' palm at an angle and came out the back side at the wrist. He also had evidence from a cadaver who had brutal stab wounds all over her body and on specific wound that fit perfectly with the description Zugibe gave about the path the nail traveled. Other than that I agree with what you are saying.
this shocked me due to someone being so determined that they would take dead bodies and decapitated arms and they would nail them to a cross to test a theory
Well Christopher its not that shocking because its just like how Myth Busters test every myth you can think of to prove it right or wrong. But instead this is theories "myth" about real human subjects to improve our safety and or health.
In chapter 7 I found it interesting how "wack" Barbet was. I mean he was so determined to prove the Shroud of Turin's authenticity that he nailed dead bodies and even amputated arms to a cross. It became even more interesting when Zugibe proved Barbet wrong. It makes me wonder how Barbet was abloe to come up with all his explanations that seemed valid and still be wrong? The biology concepts mentioned in this chapter are: Barbet's suffocation theory and a person having difficulty breathing when they're hung with their hands over their heads. Destot's space is also touched on. I actually really liked this chapter. It shows how cadaver's and even amputated limbs assist in scientific experiments.
This shocked me as well. I was surprised that somebody would be dedicated enough to nail dead bodies to a cross to see what would happen. It also surprised me after all of the gory research Barbet was wrong after all.
While I was reading chapter 7 I found it quite different from every other chapter I read. It was so different due to the fact that it started to talk about using cadavers in the form of verifying if religion is really what it tells to be. I believe that Barbet went to the complete extreme to try to prove what he believed was true that he didn’t really focus on what science is really about, which is asking a question and then seeking answers to it. I think that Zugebi was more of a real scientist because he didn’t try to get results for an answer he had already had set in his mind like Barbet, he actually tried to thoroughly find out the truth and facts.
Reading this chapter was very interesting to me because it was on the subject of crucifixion. I personally would disagree with everything Barbet thought was true. Zugebi had a more logical way of experimenting on this subject. Barbet as an example did his experiment but couldn't complete it. He only got to see what happened when being nailed of the cross at 65 degree angle. A possible biology concept in this chapter can be determining whether or not being in a certain position is harder to breathe. My interpretation about this chapter is that it seems more like a comparison of two scientist trying to figure out the same answers in different ways.
This was definitely the most creative use of cadavers, in my opinion. Literally the last thing I would have ever thought cadavers would be used for was religious experiments. With such an enormous amount of detail going into Barbet's tests, it was as if we were standing right next to him as he used amputated arms to find out how Jesus was crucified. It's a shame he was disproven, but it was still a very interesting read. We even heard that later on, recent studies showed that actual people VOLUNTEERED to be "crucified" on the cross. Personally, I thought it was rather bizarre that religion was actually associated with science in the chapter, especially for such an experiment. Biology concepts include the way blood travels through veins, and how they all connect on the inside.
I never knew that cadavers were used for religious purposes. I could understand the medical uses and learning uses but religious totally caught me off guard. this chapter was very alarming and eye opening to me.
I agree that I never would begin to think that cadavers would be used as experiments for religious purposes. What happened to ceremonial burial and letting that person rest in peace.
I was actually disturbed by this chapter, back when this was actually allowed really specifies how desperate people where they wanted to study the body, but with their subjects still alive and breathing actually showed how much people believed in this.
Chapter 7, Holy Cadaver, was a very interesting yet unique chapter compared to the rest. I would have never though that cadavers would be used to make scientific discoveries regarding religion. I was amused by the discoveries being made throughout the chapter and the theory of Dr. Pierre Barbet. I was surprised that he thought that Jesus had died due to asphyxia. I was interested to find out how he tested his theory and found it rather unusual. I think there was more of a competition between the surgeon and the crucification researcher. After Zugibe made his discoveries, Barbet’s fell apart. I was fascinated by the final theory, which said, “ The nail went through Jesus’ palm at an angle and came out the back side at the wrist”.
The fact is that theories are called that way for the fact that they do crumble or reconstruct based on new information found, but that's part of the process. When it comes to the human body you can never be too sure since it brings so many wonders.
Chapter 7 had information that I didn't know of. I wouldn't expect anyone to volunteer for a religious experiment, especially one that would bring such debate and bad attention. Barbet was probably a bit insane or at least didn't have a conscience. He would nail dead bodies to crosses to prove his point, which was gruesome and not to mention disgusting. I found it interesting that another scientist (Zugibe) would later disprove Barbets theory.
In Chapter 7 of "Stiff" I think the store is kicked up a notch. Now researches that wanted to find out about the human body after its dead did not know what was happening when it was alive. So these characters like Barbet are doing this research not just for them, but for religious reasons. Especially because this brought bad attention to Barbet and almost seem like they are torturing their subjects in sake for a religious cause. Hanging people so he could get his point across to people that he was serious about what he was doing.
What I found interesting in chapter seven the book Stiff was that, the author is informing us of a man named Frederick Zugibe and his interest in the science of Crucifixion. So in the year 2001 Zugibe decides to do an experiment where he must construct a cross which he used in his experiment for seven days, using live volunteers he must make them go up in the cross he built. Using leather straps not nails to hold them up. The first thing that Zugibe noticed was that the people he began putting on the cross had no breathing problems. In the end Zugibe’s theory was that the nails went in through Jesus’ palms at an angle and came out the back side at the wrist. The biology concept that is addressed would be the study of blood vessels because the experiment is all about how the nails went through Jesus’ palms and by making the nails go though Jesus’ palms the nails would have most likely gone through a blood vessel . I believe that the study of blood vessels would be in our biology class because there are two arteries that can be found in a human hand the radical artery(being the main artery of the hand) and the ulnar artery both being the only the two arteries that can be found in the human hand.
ReplyDelete( this was written by Debora Perez all the informing I found in the book stiff but the information about the blood vessels I found in a book named Biology: Concepts and Applications: Concepts and Applications)
I also found this chapter interesting.This chapter is a good example of not believing what other people say.When Barbet's suffocation theory was proven wrong when Zugibe put living people on a cross and found that they did not have to push them selves up to be able to breath.
DeleteI found that the fact that what killed Jesus was not suffocation, but blood loss, possibly. This puts us closer to finding out what happened to someone in a story carried mostly by word. Barbet thought that they died because they had to push themselves up to breathe, but it was proven wrong by Zugibe.
DeleteI also think that the fact that Zugibe had to built a cross very interesting. Zugibe tried to see if anybody would suffer problems while breathing and after a person stood in the cross for about 45 minutes and did not feel any problems, Zugibe gave up.
DeleteI agree, it was interesting to see how Zugibe set out to test Barbet's theory and proved him wrong. It's true what Moises said, "This chapter is a good example of not believing what other people say". If he had we all probably would have believed what Barbet said was true.
DeleteI found it crazy why someone would voluntarily go up on a cross even though they did it to "experience" what Jesus went through it doesn't come close to it. Jesus was beaten, whipped, made to carry the cross and the nailed to it for six hours. So hanging there for 45 minutes doesn't prove much. Having studied Jesus' crucifixion before, I believe he died because his heart burst not blood loss or suffocation.
DeleteI also agreed that it was pretty mad to agree to do such an experiment, as to voluntarily give yourself to be actually staked onto a cross (as was mentioned once that a young woman has asked). Though, as crazy as it sounds, I understand why they would want to experience the sacrifice of christ. I believe that the volunteers thought "well, by experiencing such an act that jesus did, that would be some sort of 'cleansing' on my part, right?" so, desperate to be 'allowed into heaven', with no second thoughts they would give themselves to the study. Now, I'm sure not all of the volunteers were extremely certain of that theory so they did not go all the way as to killing themselves on the cross but get a small hint of what it was like to hung there (but, also, I assume that there were also some believers of christ who were certain 100%). And even if being hung on the cross is only one of the many ways Jesus was tortured on the cross, it is the main part of the whole process. "the crucifixion of christ" is what everyone knows, not "The beating of christ" or "The whipping of christ". So surely these people weren't focusing on the details.
DeleteI have studied much about the ways of how Jesus died, but I am not under the christianity/Catholic umbrella of religion so I may not be accurate to some beliefs (since I never attended sunday school, I mean.), but I believe Jesus died from blood loss. I know it seems like a simple way to die, but it would generally include everything he went through. Loosing blood means loosing oxygen, and surely the beatings were not small paper cuts. A heart cannot burst, it can fail from blood loss though. It can be stabbed, ripped out and then burst between your fingers! but a beating heart can not physically combust within someone's chest unless there was some type of virus. However, if you believe one of his major arteries burst, then that would be more logical (to me, at least). If jesus was whacked enough on the noggin, along with the type of trauma of what he went through, I wouldn't be surprised if he had a heart attack- thus (I assume) being large enough to burst one of his arterie. I'm only trying to support your theory, because almost anything is possible.
I agree, it was fascinating to see how Zugibe set out to test Barbet's theory and proved him wrong. With all the details that were looked into and proven wrong, and how a man volunteered himself to put Barbet's theory to the test.
DeleteI also agree with how Zugibe took the challenge to go against Barbet's theory. But the fact that will and the thirst for knowledge drove him to take this risk truly is admirable.
DeleteDebora their main concern was where the nail went in Jesus' palm without making a large tear in the skin. The path also did not chip the bones and that's how Zugibe's theory came about. The path of the nail went through Jesus' palm at an angle and came out the back side at the wrist. He also had evidence from a cadaver who had brutal stab wounds all over her body and on specific wound that fit perfectly with the description Zugibe gave about the path the nail traveled. Other than that I agree with what you are saying.
ReplyDeletethis shocked me due to someone being so determined that they would take dead bodies and decapitated arms and they would nail them to a cross to test a theory
DeleteWell Christopher its not that shocking because its just like how Myth Busters test every myth you can think of to prove it right or wrong. But instead this is theories "myth" about real human subjects to improve our safety and or health.
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteIn chapter 7 I found it interesting how "wack" Barbet was. I mean he was so determined to prove the Shroud of Turin's authenticity that he nailed dead bodies and even amputated arms to a cross. It became even more interesting when Zugibe proved Barbet wrong. It makes me wonder how Barbet was abloe to come up with all his explanations that seemed valid and still be wrong? The biology concepts mentioned in this chapter are: Barbet's suffocation theory and a person having difficulty breathing when they're hung with their hands over their heads. Destot's space is also touched on. I actually really liked this chapter. It shows how cadaver's and even amputated limbs assist in scientific experiments.
ReplyDeleteThis shocked me as well. I was surprised that somebody would be dedicated enough to nail dead bodies to a cross to see what would happen. It also surprised me after all of the gory research Barbet was wrong after all.
DeleteWhile I was reading chapter 7 I found it quite different from every other chapter I read. It was so different due to the fact that it started to talk about using cadavers in the form of verifying if religion is really what it tells to be. I believe that Barbet went to the complete extreme to try to prove what he believed was true that he didn’t really focus on what science is really about, which is asking a question and then seeking answers to it. I think that Zugebi was more of a real scientist because he didn’t try to get results for an answer he had already had set in his mind like Barbet, he actually tried to thoroughly find out the truth and facts.
ReplyDeleteReading this chapter was very interesting to me because it was on the subject of crucifixion. I personally would disagree with everything Barbet thought was true. Zugebi had a more logical way of experimenting on this subject. Barbet as an example did his experiment but couldn't complete it. He only got to see what happened when being nailed of the cross at 65 degree angle. A possible biology concept in this chapter can be determining whether or not being in a certain position is harder to breathe. My interpretation about this chapter is that it seems more like a comparison of two scientist trying to figure out the same answers in different ways.
ReplyDeleteThis was definitely the most creative use of cadavers, in my opinion. Literally the last thing I would have ever thought cadavers would be used for was religious experiments. With such an enormous amount of detail going into Barbet's tests, it was as if we were standing right next to him as he used amputated arms to find out how Jesus was crucified. It's a shame he was disproven, but it was still a very interesting read. We even heard that later on, recent studies showed that actual people VOLUNTEERED to be "crucified" on the cross. Personally, I thought it was rather bizarre that religion was actually associated with science in the chapter, especially for such an experiment. Biology concepts include the way blood travels through veins, and how they all connect on the inside.
ReplyDeleteI never knew that cadavers were used for religious purposes. I could understand the medical uses and learning uses but religious totally caught me off guard. this chapter was very alarming and eye opening to me.
DeleteI agree that I never would begin to think that cadavers would be used as experiments for religious purposes. What happened to ceremonial burial and letting that person rest in peace.
DeleteI was actually disturbed by this chapter, back when this was actually allowed really specifies how desperate people where they wanted to study the body, but with their subjects still alive and breathing actually showed how much people believed in this.
DeleteChapter 7, Holy Cadaver, was a very interesting yet unique chapter compared to the rest. I would have never though that cadavers would be used to make scientific discoveries regarding religion. I was amused by the discoveries being made throughout the chapter and the theory of Dr. Pierre Barbet. I was surprised that he thought that Jesus had died due to asphyxia. I was interested to find out how he tested his theory and found it rather unusual. I think there was more of a competition between the surgeon and the crucification researcher. After Zugibe made his discoveries, Barbet’s fell apart. I was fascinated by the final theory, which said, “ The nail went through Jesus’ palm at an angle and came out the back side at the wrist”.
ReplyDeleteThe fact is that theories are called that way for the fact that they do crumble or reconstruct based on new information found, but that's part of the process. When it comes to the human body you can never be too sure since it brings so many wonders.
DeleteChapter 7 had information that I didn't know of. I wouldn't expect anyone to volunteer for a religious experiment, especially one that would bring such debate and bad attention. Barbet was probably a bit insane or at least didn't have a conscience. He would nail dead bodies to crosses to prove his point, which was gruesome and not to mention disgusting. I found it interesting that another scientist (Zugibe) would later disprove Barbets theory.
ReplyDeleteIn Chapter 7 of "Stiff" I think the store is kicked up a notch. Now researches that wanted to find out about the human body after its dead did not know what was happening when it was alive. So these characters like Barbet are doing this research not just for them, but for religious reasons. Especially because this brought bad attention to Barbet and almost seem like they are torturing their subjects in sake for a religious cause. Hanging people so he could get his point across to people that he was serious about what he was doing.
ReplyDelete