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Friday, July 19, 2013

Comments - Chapter 8 - How to Know if You are Dead

38 comments:

  1. What I found fascinating in chapter eight of the book stiff is that, the author is in the University of California in San Francisco Medical Center where she will be watching a surgery being done on a patient that is dead but the patient’s heart is still beating. Although the patient’s brain is not functioning; therefore the body can’t breathe on its own it must be hooked up to a respirator so the heart will beat. In a matter of days doctors will perform surgery on the patient where the doctors will take the patients organs such as the liver, kidneys, and the heart because the patient is an organ donor. The organs that will be taken from the patient will help save peoples’ lives. The biology concepts that were addressed would be that the hearts can produce an electrical impulse that allows the heart to beat on its own even if the body is dead because the book said and I quote that the patient is “a beating-heart cadaver”. I think that we will be learning about this in our biology class because the human heart is an amazing muscle that can breathe on its own even if the body if not functioning due to the electrical impulses that it can produce. (This was written by Debora Perez all the informing I found in the book stiff.)

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    1. I also think that is amazing that the heart keeps beating even after the brain is dead.

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    2. I did not know that this is how organs are donated. I believe that it is amazing how organs can be saved, and donated to people who need them. It also surprised me how the heart continues to beat after death. I agree with you about how we will be learning about the human heart in biology.

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    3. This chapter was a very interesting one. I agree with you on how it really is amazing how these organs can still be removed and the heart can still be pumping when the person is dead. The best part about being able to perform these type of surgeries is that peoples lives can be saved. With all those people on a waiting list it is good to know that at people can be helped with these surgeries.

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    4. I agree, it is interesting how even if a brain is dead, a person's other organs can be taken and used to save someone else's life. It is also interesting how the heart can continue to beat after the brain is dead.

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    5. It was intresting to know that the heart beats after the brain is dead. This person did a really good job.

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    6. I also thought that is was interesting that despite the brain being dead the cadavers heart was still beating. I truly didn't know that if you have organs working and a pumping heart you would be considered dead.

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    7. I agree that it is amassing the heart can still beat if the brain is dead. I personally consider a person dead if they are brain dead. I think this person did a great job in underlining this chapter.

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    8. I agree with what was said about this chapter. This was an interesting chapter because it was a challenge to understand whether you are alive or not with a beating heart but no working brain. The way the live organs get donated to different patients around the country is fascinating. This Section of the book was amazing.

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    9. Watching a beating heart is no fun, I agree with the author that is pretty scary. I've only seen doctor videos about heart transplants, but even those send shivers down my spine. Though it is disturbing to watch, it is interesting that a heart beats even out of a body. I like to think that it still beats for those few seconds because your whole life it has done nothing but pump, so it's been so accustomed to beating nonstop for so long that it doesn't even need the brain to keep it doing what it does.

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    10. I found this chapter of stiff interesting due to how the heart can keep beating after the brain is shut off. Also Mary Roach explains how they keep the dead body "alive" so they can keep the organs working for the donation.

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    11. This chapter was so interesting to me especially the part about how the heart can keep beating even after a person is brain dead. It was also interesting that they can keep the body alive so that they can donate the organs to a person in need of them.

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    12. This chapter was one of my favorites due to how much I learned. I agree with you on how it really is amazing how these organs are removed and the heart can still be pumping when the person is dead. This is one of the medical break throughs that have saved so many lives throughout the world and who knows what they will come up with next.

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    13. i think its your brain can stop functioning but you heart still beat your are no longer alive but you organs are.

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    14. Before this chapter I did not know that the human body can stay alive and functioning even when a person is technically dead. I was surprised to find out how organ harvests were preformed. I guess its because of how television portrays the removal of the organs. Either way I am glad that there are many organ donors who are making a difference and helping people even after they have died.

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    1. I agree it is amazing that you can save life with the organs of a brain dead person.My only concern is that if the brain dead patient really brain dead not just in a locked-in state.

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    2. I think its amazing that we can artificially keep a human breathing even though they are "brain dead". It is really cool that we can make a brain dead person continue to carry out the processes to keep the body alive.

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  3. I found this chapter very interesting and so far it is my favorite. I never really questioned where the spirit or soul resides in the body. I always assumed it was in the brain, which I guess is the most supported answer. from what I read. I didn’t think there was so much controversy about it. I also didn’t know that certain religions believe that it resides in different organs (or in the entire body).

    A biological concept that I found interesting was that the cheek cell corresponded with the person that it came from even after seperation. Also that Dr. Duncan Macdougal weighed dying patients and dogs and determined that the human soul weighs 3/4 of an ounce and that animals do not have a soul. I disliked his experiment and the fact that it lacked validity. As Dr. Augustus P. Clarke pointed out “ (Macdougal) failed to take into account the sudden rise in temperature at death when the blood stops being air-cooled via its circulation through the lungs. Clarke poisted that the sweating and moisture evaporation caused by this rise in body temperature would account for the drop in the men’s weight and the dogs’ failure to register one. (Dogs cool themselves by panting, not sweating)”. I very much believe that animals have a spirit and I don't believe the spirit can merely be measured by weight. I dislike when scientists’ preconceived bias opinion about their research (whether religious or nonreligious) affects their results and explanations.

    I didn’t know about an “organ harvest” or that thats how organ donation works. I was surprised to learn that a body can continue functioning after death. After reading this I am convinced that I want to be an organ donor when I die. This book has changed my view on a lot of things in the postmortem world.

    -Meyling Yi

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    1. Meyling I agree with what you said about the cheek cells, I wonder how would the cells act if the volunteer dies. And Dr. Duncan's religious doctrine states that animals have no souls. I also agree with what Augustus said about Macdougall's theory being wrong and why. The book is also giving me a different perspective of why these things are done.

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    2. I also wonder how the cells would react if the volunteer would die. Mostly what I would like to know is how the cheek cell even responded the same way that the test subject did. Also if there has been more research done on this subject.
      I understand that Dr. Duncan's religious doctrine states that animals have no souls and respect that even though I believe differently. I just do not agree with manipulating experiments in order to get the desired result (not that Dr. Duncan did, I'm just saying) and/ or allowing their biased opinions (religious or non-religious) to affect the explanation of their results to the scientific community and to the public.

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    3. I agree with you when you said that the soul can not be validity weighed, I think that where the soul resides is a option of your own beliefs. You made sense of the experiment and I think that this book does probably changes views on cadavers and donating organs.I defiantly though before reading this that i did not want to donate my organs, but after reading this it can really save a life.

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  4. Although I like how the author tells us important information about how people and doctors had a hard time telling if people were really dead for centuries. They used a lot of techniques to try to tell but none of them seemed to work in all cases and families were afraid of burying their loved ones alive before they actually expired. I didn't like the fact that during the organ transplant surgery she kept going off topic talking about where people thought the origin of the soul was and how they debated over it. I understood it but I kind of three me off because you don't remember where the surgery left off. It's almost like she didn't want to talk about it but she saw it and didn't want to be reminded of it. And I it's not that then I don't know what it is but what ever it was it didn't flow good with the surgery. This chapter is dealing with the vital organs of the body and how to pronounce someone dead. We will be learning about this in biology because the organs and organ systems are very important and keep us alive we will most likely be learning how they operate. We might also learn the side effects of what might happen when one or more of the organs stop working and how to know if someone has died because of their organ failure.

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    1. It is true that Mary Roach went back and forth a lot between the surgery and the histories and beliefs about where the spirit or soul lies in the body. I think it was creative and the back and forth information was correlated well enough to learn and stay interested.

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  5. Although sick, the topic that most interested me in the chapter was the process of how they determined whether a person was dead or alive. Though I feel sorry for the rare humans that were still conscious enough to feel a piercing hot iron rod being stuck up their rear, I also feel bad for those alive but not conscious enough to be saved. So, the interesting part was a two way bad one way good. meaning, if you died- good for you! no need to feel anything and you are officially done with the burden of living. However, if you're alive, You either feel the mental scarring pain to shock you out of your state or you're buried alive.
    I also liked the Idea of the 'death hotels'. In my knowledge, I had known about coffins with small bells to alarm anyone nearby- but I had never known about actual hotels for the dead. It interests me because the amount of defeat the scientists must have felt to turn to this must have been horrid. It's sad, really. But I'm sure that an interesting horror story can be made from this(and I'll be sure to add that to my to-do list for any free time).

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    1. I agree that it must've been unfortunate to still be conscious and have to feel such pain, yet be unable to call for help. I cannot imagine how terrible that must be, to slowly die from such pain. I too found death hotels really interesting; I never knew that such a thing existed and was surprised to learn about them from the novel.

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    2. The way that scientist found out how long cadavers have been dead, was amazing. There are so many ways to know how many hours or days. starting from the temperature in your body to the fly larvae on your body.

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    3. I think this chapter was the least sick of them all. I do I agree though that where the soul/spirit lies in the body. We cannot really ever be sure. Maybe one day we will find out. It is scary to think that one might be mistaken for dead and then have their organs taken out or even been buried, I think this is the main reason many people do not want to donate their organs. But there are many tests that prevent these rare happenings.

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  6. What i found interesting about this chapter is how cadavers could still have active organs even if their brain is dead. This chapter also argues about dealing with the vital organs of the body and how to pronounce someone dead. Even though cadaver "H" has working organs even if their brain isn't working, I'm shocked that it is even possible for that to happen. Even though Roach is struggling to understand if "H" is still alive or not, this chapter describes to me the real definition of death and how we know if someone is really dead or not.

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    1. I agree with how remarkable a body can be, thinking that the operating system of a body can be dead while its workers are still operating. Science works in mysterious ways.

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  7. Surprisingly, this chapter actually fascinated me. I really thought this would be more of a disturbing chapter, which it was, but not as much as I predicted. This chapter was very informative and also very captivating. I definitely wanted to read on and see what else occurred in this chapter. Roach went to the university of California in San Francisco medical school to watch a surgery take place. The procedure was performed on a dead patient. My first reaction to this was very shocked, but as I continued to read, I learned that the patients’ heart remained alive. The surgical procedure was taking place in order to transplant the other living organs to another patient in need of a replacement/ transplant. I find it amazing that doctors manage to help people in what I call, get a “second chance in life”. Many people (avg. 80,000) remain on the waiting list. In my opinion this was an emotional part in a way, since I believe that people placed on this list still have hope and faith to an easier life. It makes me realize that people with specific organ malfunctions still may have a possibility to a longer life. Another very interesting thing I learned in this book was that after a heart transplant, 47 people were surveyed. Many of them had a change in thoughts on specific things and behavior, other than their own. The patient’s believed that the soul of the previous person was now in their very own body. Many different opinions were said/discussed that the soul is in the brain,others argued that the soul was in the heart, since it is the organ in which keeps a person alive (as long as it is pumping blood). This chapter was extremely informative and taught me many things. The author did a very good job including facts and details to tie it all together. As you can see by the length of my writing, I was extremely engaged in to this chapter. with no doubt, i would enjoy learning more about this topic.

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    1. I also found this chapter excellent for the reasons you stated. It was indeed very informative and I also felt the same way before I read the chapter. I thought it would be much more disturbing. Like you, I would love to learn more about this topic.

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  8. Chapter 8 has to be my favorite chapter in "Stiff". This chapter really caught my attention for many reasons. The question here is, when are you really considered dead? What is the definition of death? Is it when your heart stops beating, when your brain-dead, is it when your on life support? Roach visits UCSF and there she goes to a room where a "beating-heart" cadaver lies. Doctors will cut open the patient referred to as "H" and use the organs for people in desperate need of transplants. Roach is have difficulties understanding why the patient is a cadaver if the heart is still beating. The history in this chapter is pretty interesting as well. In the early 20th century doctors tried to capture the time the soul left the body and that would be your time of death. The details, vividness, and facts made this chapter great.

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    1. It was my favorite chapter too! I was surprised to learn about "beating-heart" cadavers. The part that intrigued me was wondering where the soul/spirit lies in the body and what makes you "dead".

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  9. This is possibly the chapter that made me think the most. The reason this is one of my favorite chapters is because it really made me think on what it means to be considered dead. Whether being dead meant brain-dead or if it meant a heart stopped beating. When I considered what the heart meant to the brain and vice-versa it led me to believe that a person is truly dead once their brain starts functioning. The book also backs this up by referring to some who is brain dead as a 'beating heart' cadaver. This relates to biology because it explains how the heart and brain relate to one another and the body. This part of the book focuses on what it takes to be considered dead.

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  10. This was a very mesmerizing chapter. I never realized how the doctors had a difficult time figuring out whether the person is dead or not. This chapter wasn’t really gory at all. It mostly talked about spirits leaving the bodies. This chapter made me contemplates the idea whether you’re actually dead or not. It’s interesting how you can be dead from the brain but still have working organs.

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  11. When I read the title of this chapter, I was completely confused. I had always thought that you were alive or dead, never “both”. These would be known as “beating heart cadavers” As I read about how people can be considered brain dead, I was utterly fascinated to learn more. Although the person’s brain is not functioning, their heart is still beating and blood is still pumping through their body, if you attach it to a respirator. The organs can still be used within the matter of days if the patient happens to be an organ donor. This relates to biology because the human heart in a fascinating organ, that can work even when the brain doesn’t.

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  12. This chapter was one of my favorites due to how much I learned. I agree with you on how it really is amazing how these organs are removed and the heart can still be pumping when the person is dead. This is one of the medical break throughs that have saved so many lives throughout the world and who knows what they will come up with next.

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